[bigblacksista]

[Clay]

Oh, brother...I for one am not interested in yet another "pity-full" movie about black life. It's getting pretty tired and worse yet, what is with all these black "men" and their need to vent, wail and bemoan their lives via romance-type novels and Macmillan-esque movies??? I guess I'm used to the old school brothas but I can't stand all this "whiny/touchy feely" crap brothas are expressing nowadays. What happened to men that just held their chins up, sucked in that gut and MANNED-UP? I can't stand these 6-footers in dresses, comedians "mimicking" homosexuality better than they mimick heterosexuality and the "deep brothas" (Lord have mercy... ) - writing poetry about their "feeee-lings" and whatnot.

ENOUGH ALREADY, NANCY BOYS! Hike up those skirts and get to climbing that mountain with the rest of US, the MEN and women-folk! Stop pontificating about the nature of being and "WHY, oh WHY" the Universe continues to run roughshod over you and get your crybaby act together and get over yourselves. Just like my grandfather SAYS, "they're nothin' but a bunch of prima donnas- the lot of 'em!" All these poor males, acting like their mamas...jeez! It's a disgrace and an abomination!

those men who "just held their chin up, and sucked in their gut" usually died an early death from stress and its related diseases... or they displaced their anger usually beating their wife and kids.... or they were untouchable, so while they "manned up" they had no meaningful relationships with their sons or daughters....

Suppression of feelings never works.... it shows up somewhere else, and its usually not very pretty when it does.....

[bigblacksista]

those men who "just held their chin up, and sucked in their gut" usually died an early death from stress and its related diseases... or they displaced their anger usually beating their wife and kids.... or they were untouchable, so while they "manned up" they had no meaningful relationships with their sons or daughters....

Suppression of feelings never works.... it shows up somewhere else, and its usually not very pretty when it does.....

[Blaqjade]

This post has been edited by Blaqjade: 16 October 2008 - 11:43 AM

[Clay]

Good point. Thank goodness brothers are talking out their problems, journaling and making movies and are now living longer, healthier, happier lives for it. I don't know how my grandfather and his older brother made it through The Depression, war, Jim Crow and Reganomics before "male-bonding" and Tyler Perry came along. He's a throwback, I guess, born long before guys wore 2 earrings and sagging jeans... All that and he still raised my father, his stepson, from the age of 2yrs old (dad is nearly 60 now) and 3 other children, all without beating my grandmother or his kids for release therapy. The ol' man will be 85 this February (God willing!)

Boy...THESE are the days...

Sorry for the sarcasm but our community is faced w/ mounting health issues related to or exascerbated by stress, rap music is a prime example of freedom of emotional expression and MANY a father is untouchable, unreachable, unreliable and it's NOT because he manned up and shut -down but because he refused to stick around. THIS, after 25 yrs of Oprah and "talk-talk-talk-talking it out". A lot of brothas are expressing their feelings and WE are still at a loss, so maybe we've done too much talking. I mean, that's OUR race's best talent- the gift for gab. The ability to run game at lightening speeds without skipping a beat or taking a breath but what has it really gotten US? Maybe we ought to apply some of this knowledge to our everyday lives and stop talking about it.

Just my experience...

the old school man made it through by not exploring the idea that there might be more to their existence... they accepted their responsibility and didn't question their role..... but most humans are more complex than the role they assume...

Your comments beg the question of, if the old school men were doing what they were doing correctly, including raising kids, what prevented that mindset from being passed on? If the men you have pointed out were the good role models, why didn't their sons or daughters internalize those values and live their lives according to them? Where is the disconnect....

I think that some of the problems have always been there, and men have always struggled successfully or not with them.....

Lastly, some men are doing both, talking the talk and walking the walk... that is my observation.....

[princessdi]

Excellent repsonses and questions, Steve!

[Denny]

Oh, brother...I for one am not interested in yet another "pity-full" movie about black life. It's getting pretty tired and worse yet, what is with all these black "men" and their need to vent, wail and bemoan their lives via romance-type novels and Macmillan-esque movies??? I guess I'm used to the old school brothas but I can't stand all this "whiny/touchy feely" crap brothas are expressing nowadays. What happened to men that just held their chins up, sucked in that gut and MANNED-UP? I can't stand these 6-footers in dresses, comedians "mimicking" homosexuality better than they mimick heterosexuality and the "deep brothas" (Lord have mercy... ) - writing poetry about their "feeee-lings" and whatnot.

ENOUGH ALREADY, NANCY BOYS! Hike up those skirts and get to climbing that mountain with the rest of US, the MEN and women-folk! Stop pontificating about the nature of being and "WHY, oh WHY" the Universe continues to run roughshod over you and get your crybaby act together and get over yourselves. Just like my grandfather SAYS, "they're nothin' but a bunch of prima donnas- the lot of 'em!" All these poor males, acting like their mamas...jeez! It's a disgrace and an abomination!

Good thing King David et al never thought like you, we would never be blessed with the Psalms. Never read in the bible where God dictated expressing your feelings was only meant for women. I agree with Steve there are men out there that do both and there are men thay don't. Being a man is more than holding ones chin up and sucking in ones gut - feelings are a human trait not a feminine human trait. What next? A post on why women are not at home popping out babies, and making pound cake rather than having the audacity of choosing to do something else or even both?
Gendar stereotypes are as helpful as racial ones.......

[bigblacksista]

Good thing King David et al never thought like you, we would never be blessed with the Psalms. Never read in the bible where God dictated expressing your feelings was only meant for women. I agree with Steve there are men out there that do both and there are men thay don't. Being a man is more than holding ones chin up and sucking in ones gut - feelings are a human trait not a feminine human trait. What next? A post on why women are not at home popping out babies, and making pound cake rather than having the audacity of choosing to do something else or even both?
Gendar stereotypes are as helpful as racial ones.......

[Blaqjade]

This post has been edited by Blaqjade: 16 October 2008 - 11:44 AM

[bigblacksista]

[ name='Blaqjade' date='Oct 16 2008, 10:17 AM' post='263084']

1.) Stay away from the pound cake.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm....................

Why?

2.) Have as many children as you and your husband can properly care for.

Who exactly is to determine what "properly" means?

This post has been edited by bigblacksista: 16 October 2008 - 08:56 AM

[PeacefulBe]

the old school man made it through by not exploring the idea that there might be more to their existence... they accepted their responsibility and didn't question their role..... but most humans are more complex than the role they assume...

Your comments beg the question of, if the old school men were doing what they were doing correctly, including raising kids, what prevented that mindset from being passed on? If the men you have pointed out were the good role models, why didn't their sons or daughters internalize those values and live their lives according to them? Where is the disconnect....

I think that some of the problems have always been there, and men have always struggled successfully or not with them.....

Lastly, some men are doing both, talking the talk and walking the walk... that is my observation.....

I was rather surprised to come back today and find Blaqjade's posts self-deleted and replaced with a smiling smilie. Does that mean she has changed her POV, decided she came on too strong, regrets the tone she used or what? Her "smilie" doesn't answer that.

So much was over-generalized in the statements she made. In every generation there have been men who "get" it.... who pass on strong values to their sons and daughters, who live their lives with integrety no matter the social pressures around them. And, of course, there are the men who don't. But let's not be too hasty to put all of what many children have become on the shoulders of the men of the various generations. IMO, the community that surrounds these men holds some responsibility for the characters of the children. Yes parents, mothers, fathers, whether present or not, and grandparents, etc, have a huge influence, but a child's character is also sculpted by their teachers, preachers, peers, media and others in the society around them.

After reading Blaqjade's posts and the sarcasm about those "deep brothas writing poetry..." I saw a bit of red (how dare anyone belittle poetry! Harumph!) dashed off to find some of Langston Hughes' poems and discovered that October 17th is Black Poetry Day. I am pasting in several of "deep brotha" poet Langston Hughes poems:

Dinner Guest: Me

I know I am
The Negro Problem
Being wined and dined,
Answering the usual questions
That come to white mind
Which seeks demurely
To Probe in polite way
The why and wherewithal
Of darkness U.S.A.--
Wondering how things got this way
In current democratic night,
Murmuring gently

Over fraises du bois,
"I'm so ashamed of being white."
The lobster is delicious,
The wine divine,
And center of attention
At the damask table, mine.
To be a Problem on
Park Avenue at eight
Is not so bad.
Solutions to the Problem,
Of course, wait.


Written by Langston Hughes (1902-1967)

Po' Boy Blues

When I was home de
Sunshine seemed like gold.
When I was home de
Sunshine seemed like gold.
Since I come up North de
Whole d--- world's turned cold.

I was a good boy,
Never done no wrong.
Yes, I was a good boy,
Never done no wrong,
But this world is weary
An' de road is hard an' long.


I fell in love with
A gal I thought was kind.
Fell in love with
A gal I thought was kind.
She made me lose ma money
An' almost lose ma mind.


Weary, weary,
Weary early in de morn.
Weary, weary,
Early, early in de morn.
I's so weary
I wish I'd never been born.

Written by Langston Hughes (1902-1967)


Dream Variations

To fling my arms wide
In some place of the sun,
To whirl and to dance
Till the white day is done.
Then rest at cool evening
Beneath a tall tree
While night comes on gently,
Dark like me--
That is my dream!

To fling my arms wide
In the face of the sun,
Dance! Whirl! Whirl!
Till the quick day is done.
Rest at pale evening . . .
A tall, slim tree . . .
Night coming tenderly
Black like me. .

Written by Langston Hughes (1902-1967)

Cultural Exchange

In the Quarter of the Negroes
Where the doors are doors of paper
Dust of dingy atoms
Blows a scratchy sound.
Amorphous jack-o'-Lanterns caper
And the wind won't wait for imdnight
For fun to blow doors down.

By the river and the railroad
With fluid far-off goind
Boundaries bind unbinding
A whirl of whisteles blowing.
No trains or steamboats going--
Yet Leontyne's unpacking.


In the Quarter of the Negroes
Where the doorknob lets in Lieder
More than German ever bore,
Her yesterday past grandpa--
Not of her own doing--
In a pot of collard greens
Is gently stewing.


Pushcarts fold and unfold
In a supermarket sea.
And we better find out, mama,
Where is the colored laundromat
Since we move dup to Mount Vernon.


In the pot begind the paper doors
on the old iron stove what's cooking?
What's smelling, Leontyne?
Lieder, lovely Lieder
And a leaf of collard green.
Lovely Lieder, Leontyne.


You know, right at Christmas
They asked me if my blackness,
Would it rub off?
I said, Ask your mama.


Dreams and nightmares!
Nightmares, dreams, oh!
Dreaming that the Negroes
Of the South have taken over--
Voted all the Dixiecrats
Right out of power--


Comes the COLORED HOUR:
Martin Luther King is Governor of Georgia,
Dr. Rufus Clement his Chief Adviser,
A. Philip Randolph the High Grand Worthy.
In white pillared mansions
Sitting on their wide verandas,
Wealthy Negroes have white servants,
White sharecroppers work the black plantations,
And colored children have white mammies:
Mammy Faubus
Mammy Eastland
Mammy Wallace
Dear, dear darling old white mammies--
Sometimes even buried with our family.
Dear old
Mammy Faubus!


Culture, they say, is a two-way street:
Hand me my mint julep, mammny.
Hurry up!
Make haste!

Written by Langston Hughes (1902-1967)

I, Too, Sing America

I, too, sing America.

I am the darker brother.
They send me to eat in the kitchen
When company comes,
But I laugh,
And eat well,
And grow strong.


Tomorrow,
I'll be at the table
When company comes.
Nobody'll dare
Say to me,
"Eat in the kitchen,"
Then.


Besides,
They'll see how beautiful I am
And be ashamed--


I, too, am America.

Written by Langston Hughes (1902-1967)

Okay, maybe some of these don't precisely parallel the theme of this movie, but the societal pressure that generations have faced is certainly part of the reason that some black men are "tired", IMO, and Hughes captured that in his poetry.

Link to Langston Hughes bio and more of his poetry.

[MsHoly1]

those men who "just held their chin up, and sucked in their gut" usually died an early death from stress and its related diseases... or they displaced their anger usually beating their wife and kids.... or they were untouchable, so while they "manned up" they had no meaningful relationships with their sons or daughters....

Suppression of feelings never works.... it shows up somewhere else, and its usually not very pretty when it does.....

So true

[MsHoly1]

the old school man made it through by not exploring the idea that there might be more to their existence... they accepted their responsibility and didn't question their role..... but most humans are more complex than the role they assume...

Your comments beg the question of, if the old school men were doing what they were doing correctly, including raising kids, what prevented that mindset from being passed on? If the men you have pointed out were the good role models, why didn't their sons or daughters internalize those values and live their lives according to them? Where is the disconnect....

I think that some of the problems have always been there, and men have always struggled successfully or not with them.....

Lastly, some men are doing both, talking the talk and walking the walk... that is my observation.....

I've asked myself the same thing, especially after hearing someone speak about how their parents raised them and then I look at their children and I'm like . So I often wonder if they are passing down the same values and discipline and it's not working with the next generation or, if they have abandoned them altogether because they felt that their parents were too strict. In one case, it was the latter and I thought to myself that they should try their parents way of raising their children because they came out OK.

[LeePaDee]

THANKS PB.... grew up reading and reciting Paul Laurence Dunbar and Langston Hughes....
Of course, here, in Prague, such is not easily found.... thanks to the internet, I'm not thirsty for such as I was 15years ago.
THANKS PB

[MsHoly1]

THANKS PB.... grew up reading and reciting Paul Laurence Dunbar and Langston Hughes....
Of course, here, in Prague, such is not easily found.... thanks to the internet, I'm not thirsty for such as I was 15years ago.
THANKS PB

Ahhhh...Paul Laurence Dunbar...the name of my high school.